Discussion:
Without the US in NATO, there is no NATO
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Byker
2018-06-19 18:06:50 UTC
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Trump vs NATO: the trade war is becoming a security crisis

Fraser Nelson
14 Jun 2018

"The future of the North Atlantic Treaty Organisation looks shakier now than
perhaps at any time since its inception in 1949. Six of the G7 are in Nato,
and the US spends more on defence than its 28 other members together. But
the alliance only works when its members can present a united front: hard to
do when the US President routinely describes Nato as a scam and openly muses
about leaving its members to fend for themselves. Without faith in Nato,
there is no Nato."

https://www.spectator.com.au/2018/06/trump-vs-nato-the-trade-war-is-becoming-a-security-crisis/


All right, Euros, step up and pull YOUR share of the load...
A. Filip
2018-06-19 18:11:49 UTC
Permalink
Post by Byker
Trump vs NATO: the trade war is becoming a security crisis
Fraser Nelson
14 Jun 2018
"The future of the North Atlantic Treaty Organisation looks shakier now than
perhaps at any time since its inception in 1949. Six of the G7 are in Nato,
and the US spends more on defence than its 28 other members together. But
the alliance only works when its members can present a united front: hard to
do when the US President routinely describes Nato as a scam and openly muses
about leaving its members to fend for themselves. Without faith in Nato,
there is no Nato."
https://www.spectator.com.au/2018/06/trump-vs-nato-the-trade-war-is-becoming-a-security-crisis/
All right, Euros, step up and pull YOUR share of the load...
Do you want Yet Another Strong & Powerful German Military?
I assume that Trumps wants more but not too much.

Be careful what you ask for - you may get it.
--
A. Filip
| Egotist: A person of low taste, more interested in himself than in me.
| (Ambrose Bierce)
Byker
2018-06-20 00:46:39 UTC
Permalink
Post by A. Filip
Do you want Yet Another Strong & Powerful German Military?
I assume that Trumps wants more but not too much.
Be careful what you ask for - you may get it.
Most likely it'll be asslifters going up chimneys instead of Jews...
Siri Cruise
2018-06-19 20:47:32 UTC
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Post by Byker
do when the US President routinely describes Nato as a scam and openly muses
about leaving its members to fend for themselves. Without faith in Nato,
there is no Nato."
Part of NATO is nuclear weapons control. Only the US, UK, and France are
supposed to have them, and they are pledged to retaliate nuclear weapons for
nuclear weapons used against the rest of NATO. If Russia launches nuclear
weapons against Poland, it is the US that is expected to respond in kind. This
means Poland doesn't need its own weapons.

Take the US and all of its nuclear weapons out of NATO, and there's a good
chance that more European countries will make their own. 21st century Germany
and Poland are not the same places as 20th century Germany and Poland, but do we
really a nuclear armed Germany and a nuclear armed Poland sitting next to each
other?
--
:-<> Siri Seal of Disavowal #000-001. Disavowed. Denied. Deleted. @
'I desire mercy, not sacrifice.' /|\
I'm saving up to buy the Donald a blue stone This post / \
from Metebelis 3. All praise the Great Don! insults Islam. Mohammed
Byker
2018-06-20 00:25:35 UTC
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Post by Byker
https://www.spectator.com.au/2018/06/trump-vs-nato-the-trade-war-is-becoming-a-security-crisis/
All right, Euros, step up and pull YOUR share of the load...
The first NATO sec-gen said that the entire purpose of the alliance is to
'keep the Americans in, the Russians out, and the Germans down'.
https://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Hastings_Ismay
Letting the Germans get too strong would be a bad idea
It would be awhile before they got that strong:


Who would they go to war with? Poland?



Interesting EU vs. Russia faceoff:

Byker
2018-06-20 00:49:43 UTC
Permalink
Post by Byker
https://www.spectator.com.au/2018/06/trump-vs-nato-the-trade-war-is-becoming-a-security-crisis/
All right, Euros, step up and pull YOUR share of the load...
Yeah it's interesting that the United States is in the process of giving
up it's leadership position.
The mere threat alone would make the Euros get their shit together...
Gronk
2018-06-24 05:18:46 UTC
Permalink
Post by Byker
Trump vs NATO: the trade war is becoming a security crisis
Fraser Nelson
14 Jun 2018
"The future of the North Atlantic Treaty Organisation looks shakier now than
perhaps at any time since its inception in 1949. Six of the G7 are in Nato,
and the US spends more on defence than its 28 other members together. But
the alliance only works when its members can present a united front: hard to
do when the US President routinely describes Nato as a scam and openly muses
about leaving its members to fend for themselves. Without faith in Nato,
there is no Nato."
https://www.spectator.com.au/2018/06/trump-vs-nato-the-trade-war-is-becoming-a-security-crisis/
All right, Euros, step up and pull YOUR share of the load...
#BeamMeUpScotty
2018-06-24 15:13:18 UTC
Permalink
Post by Byker
Trump vs NATO: the trade war is becoming a security crisis
Fraser Nelson
14 Jun 2018
"The future of the North Atlantic Treaty Organisation looks shakier now than
perhaps at any time since its inception in 1949. Six of the G7 are in Nato,
and the US spends more on defence than its 28 other members together. But
the alliance only works when its members can present a united front: hard to
do when the US President routinely describes Nato as a scam and openly muses
about leaving its members to fend for themselves. Without faith in Nato,
there is no Nato."
https://www.spectator.com.au/2018/06/trump-vs-nato-the-trade-war-is-becoming-a-security-crisis/
All right, Euros, step up and pull YOUR share of the load...
Change NATO treaty back into a defense pact rather than an offensive
mercenary army....
--
That's Karma
Wolffan
2018-06-24 15:41:30 UTC
Permalink
Post by #BeamMeUpScotty
Post by Byker
Trump vs NATO: the trade war is becoming a security crisis
Fraser Nelson
14 Jun 2018
"The future of the North Atlantic Treaty Organisation looks shakier now than
perhaps at any time since its inception in 1949. Six of the G7 are in Nato,
and the US spends more on defence than its 28 other members together. But
the alliance only works when its members can present a united front: hard to
do when the US President routinely describes Nato as a scam and openly muses
about leaving its members to fend for themselves. Without faith in Nato,
there is no Nato."
https://www.spectator.com.au/2018/06/trump-vs-nato-the-trade-war-is-becomin
g-a-security-crisis/
All right, Euros, step up and pull YOUR share of the load...
Change NATO treaty back into a defense pact rather than an offensive
mercenary army....
When did that change occur? Please be specific, with examples.
Andrew Swallow
2018-06-24 20:18:56 UTC
Permalink
Post by Wolffan
Post by #BeamMeUpScotty
Post by Byker
Trump vs NATO: the trade war is becoming a security crisis
Fraser Nelson
14 Jun 2018
"The future of the North Atlantic Treaty Organisation looks shakier now than
perhaps at any time since its inception in 1949. Six of the G7 are in Nato,
and the US spends more on defence than its 28 other members together. But
the alliance only works when its members can present a united front: hard to
do when the US President routinely describes Nato as a scam and openly muses
about leaving its members to fend for themselves. Without faith in Nato,
there is no Nato."
https://www.spectator.com.au/2018/06/trump-vs-nato-the-trade-war-is-becomin
g-a-security-crisis/
All right, Euros, step up and pull YOUR share of the load...
Change NATO treaty back into a defense pact rather than an offensive
mercenary army....
When did that change occur? Please be specific, with examples.
After 9/11. NATO was involved with the Gulf Wars.
Byker
2018-06-24 23:06:16 UTC
Permalink
Post by Byker
Trump vs NATO: the trade war is becoming a security crisis
All right, Euros, step up and pull YOUR share of the load...
The US spends around 3.6% of GDP on defence, the non-US members'
consolidated spend is around 1.6%. The NATO target is 2% *by 2024*.
Should the non-US NATO states all meet that 2% target the US contribution
would still be 3% plus. I suspect the current US government wouldn't
accept that either, nor do I think there's a collective appetite for other
states to significantly increase their military spend. Where that will
take us I'm less sure
Figures from https://www.nato.int/cps/ic/natohq/topics_49198.htm and other
sources.
Interesting: "Russia has embarked on a huge military spending binge which
was estimated to have reached 4.5 percent of its GDP in 2014. This year,
according to budget data, that has increased substantially to more than 9
percent of quarterly GDP, a rate of spending that is surely unsustainable."

Forbes infographic:
https://www.forbes.com/sites/niallmccarthy/2015/06/25/the-biggest-military-budgets-as-a-percentage-of-gdp-infographic-2/
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